How it was 13.06.1998 (1998)

Theme of the program: "Belovezhskaya Pushcha" part two.

Fragments from the first part of the program "How It Was", "Belovezhskaya Pushcha 1991" with monologues of the participants.

Caption: "Belovezhskaya Pushcha" part two.

The host reads lines from the diary of Anatoly Chernyaev, assistant to the President of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev.

At 12:00 Mikhail Sergeyevich spoke with Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich did not arrive, in the afternoon he had a long meeting in the walnut room with the political advisory council Yakovlev, Shevardnadze, Bakatin, Primakov, Shakhnazarov.

The host invites Georgy Khosroevich Shakhnazarov to the studio.

Georgy Shakhnazarov says that the day after Gorbachev received a message from Belovezhskaya Pushcha, he called Shakhnazarov early in the morning and asked what we were going to do.

Shakhnazarov Georgy said that in his opinion it is necessary to convene a congress of people's deputies in the USSR and make a decision to cancel or invalidate the Belovezh Accords.

Gorbachev agreed with this.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that at that time the Supreme Soviets of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus had already ratified the Belovezh Accords and that on the 13th in Almaty and other Republics joined, this circumstance actually predetermined the impossibility for Gorbachev to take any decisive measures.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that it is necessary to give an exact qualification of what happened on December 8 in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, it was a real state conspiracy and what is called a coup in politics, political science and jurisprudence.

Three leaders of states had no right to make such decisions without holding referendums according to the Constitution of the USSR. Shakhnazarov Georgy says that what happened in Belovezhskaya Pushcha is a crime.

Burbulis Gennady talks about the decision to create the CIS and sign documents in Belovezhskaya Pushcha.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that the USSR could have been preserved, working together with Burbulis Gennady on the union treaty.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that Burbulis Gennady and Gaidar Yegor treacherously deceived Gorbachev.

Burbulis Gennady says that the main misconception of Gorbachev's team was that it did not know a clear answer to three questions at that time and a year before, the first question was power in the renewed union with the CPSU or without the CPSU, because by November there was no Communist Party in any republic, in essence, the second question was the economy of the renewed Soviet Union, private property including land or without it, and finally the third question was spiritual life, ideology with Marxism Leninism according to the CPSU edition or universal values, human rights and all Freedoms, these questions had to be discussed.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that Burbulis Gennady thinks only about global problems, and the issues of private property on land and ideology have not yet been resolved.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that the USSR could have been saved in three ways: not to start perestroika and democratization, that is, without freedom of speech, without parliament, the USSR would have existed, the second way, when separatist movements began, radical games with declarations of independence with the sole purpose of bringing their own government to the Kremlin that would not just set the task of democratic renewal of socialism, but destroyed the existing system, the third option would return to the Union Treaty that was developed by Gorbachev's team for a federal state.

The host suggests listening to Gorbachev Mikhail.

Video: Gorbachev Mikhail says that 76% of percent during the referendum voted for the preservation of the USSR. Gorbachev Mikhail talks about Yeltsin Boris's plans, the performance of the putschists and the breakdown of the Union Treaty.

Gorbachev Mikhail talks about the Supreme Soviets of the USSR Republics that ratified the Belovezh Accords and did not support Gorbachev.

Intro "How It Was".

The host invites Vadim Andreevich Medvedev, a former member of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee, to the studio.

The host asks a question, Vadim Andreevich What, in your opinion, were the main springs in those days, political or human.

Vadim Medvedev says that both, although probably the main roles were played by political ones, also lived in the sense that there was a clash of two policies, one of which was personified by Gorbachev, who began perestroika and continued it, while allowing a number of mistakes that really led to complications in the situation in the country and to the putsch of August ninety-first year of August, and the second political line is the Yeltsin line, which was born several years before and was carried out quite consistently in their lives.

Medvedeva Vadim says that the points of the Belovezhskaya agreement and the union treaty had similar points, that is, a single economic space, cooperation on foreign policy issues, a single military strategic space, with the exception of one point, namely the absence of a political center.

The host reads lines from the diary of Chernyaev Anatoly, assistant to the President of the USSR Gorbachev Mikhail.

We were sitting with Gorbachev Mikhail, he was putting the final touches on his farewell speech, suddenly Raisa Maxim called in a panic, people showed up and demanded that she and all her belongings leave the apartment on Kosygin Street in 2 hours.

Gorbachev Mikhail got furious, went all spotty, called one to another, swore, it seemed like the robbery stopped, but 26 of them were still shot, and for a long time they refused to send a truck to take the things.

Burbulis Gennady says that in the nineties of world history the Communist system implemented in the Soviet Union, outlived itself it was by all parameters a naked dead end.

Burbulis Gennady says that the eviction of Gorbachev with his family from the apartment is barbarity and does not want to discuss it and has nothing to do with it, obedient performers, who were brought up by the system, are involved in the eviction of Gorbachev.

The host reads lines from the diary of Chernyaev Anatoly, assistant to the President of the USSR Gorbachev Mikhail.

Yesterday they were already looking for someone at the exit from the presidential building in the Kremlin, the chairman of the commission on Afghan affairs Aushev - Hero of the Soviet Union punched the warrant officer who tried to search him in the face.

We and Riventko were sent an order from Burbulis to wrap it up, my phones have already been given to someone else, they are calling and asking not for me.

Shakhnazarov Georgy says that on another day Gorbachev was scheduled for his last Kremlin interview with the editor-in-chief of the Japanese newspaper, Mr.

Kata.

Shakhnazarov was preparing for the interview, but a message came that Gorbachev's office should be vacated, as a result the interview was recorded in another place.

Gorbachev's indignation knew no bounds, but he did not raise a scandal.

Gorbachev was effectively switched off, isolated and ostracized, wherever he went, a telegram went ahead, do not accept, and he remains isolated to this day.

The presenter suggests watching a video.

Mikhail Gorbachev's last television address to citizens as President of the USSR, December 25, 1991. Intro "How it was".

Shushkevich Stanislav says that today he learned a lot of new things about the fate of Mikhail Sergeyevich as a person, and what he heard is simply shocking, because he was mistaken in thinking that Russia had risen to the level of a civilized transfer of power from one hand to another.

The way he was treated does not glorify the state that treated him that way.

Shushkevich Stanislav talks about Mikhail Gorbachev's speech.

Burbulis Gennady says that Gorbachev, when announcing his resignation, had the right to any conclusions and any formulations, having a historical, historical and human right to do so.

Burbulis Gennady talks about Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin's reaction to Mikhail Gorbachev's last televised address to citizens as the President of the USSR. The presenter asks Gennady Burbulis if they celebrated the victory.

Gennady Burbulis says that they did not celebrate the victory, did not fall asleep that night, no, there was no jubilation or malicious delight.

Georgy Shakhnazarov says that there are rumors that after Gorbachev's speech in the office, Boris Yeltsin, Gennady Burbulis and someone else drank a bottle of cognac.

Gennady Burbulis says that this did not happen, it was just work.

Medvedev Vadim says that there was a meeting on the morning of the 29th in Gorbachev's office, when entering Yeltsin's office and in the presence of officials there was such a so-called "meeting".

The presenter asks Burbulis Gennady why he is afraid to admit that they drank in Gorbachev's office.

Burbulis Gennady says that this did not happen, he does not remember it.

The presenter suggests watching a video with Gorbachev.

Intro "How it was".

Video: Gorbachev Mikhail Sergeyevich, says that in the morning he received a call to his dacha, it was reported that at 8:30 Yeltsin, Khazbulatov and Burbulis arrived in his office, opened a bottle of whiskey and drank it.

Gorbachev Mikhail Sergeyevich, says that it was a triumph of predators and he did not go to that office again.

Burbulis Gennady says that this did not happen.

Shakhnazarov Georgy and Burbulis Gennady are arguing about which path to take, Yeltsin's or Gorbachev's.

Burbulis Gennady says that the country is moving towards something normal and civilized.

Shushkevich Stanislav says that for some reason one position is not heard in the discussion, what is the end of the USSR, is it the collapse of an empire, is it the end of an empire and an attempt to create a democratic commonwealth or is it one clan that defeated another clan.

Shushkevich Stanislav says that he would not raise a glass to the collapse of the USSR, but he would raise a glass to the end of the empire and the imperial approach.

Shushkevich Stanislav says that he has never regretted the collapse of the USSR. Shushkevich Stanislav says that the state does not need to feed the people, the people will create conditions for themselves so that a person can be an individual, can act, can work.

The host turns to the audience, can anyone say anything about what they heard.

Elena Evgenyevna says that Russia is a country where any change of power tragically goes through the people, in all discussions none of the politicians ever talk about the people.

Elena Evgenyevna talks about migrant workers, callousness in people's relationships.

Elena Evgenyevna says that in general the people are silent, but this does not mean that the people are doing well.

The host says that since the Soviet Union ceased to exist, one five-year plan and another year have passed, this is very little by historical standards, some were happy, some were sad, we are not going to judge anyone, we just want to remember how it was.